Comments on: Builds are like real software - or even more so http://blog.objectteams.org/2011/09/builds-are-like-real-software-or-even-more-so/ Everthing Object Teams - adding team spirit to your objects. Fri, 18 May 2012 09:19:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: The message is the message at The Object Teams Blog http://blog.objectteams.org/2011/09/builds-are-like-real-software-or-even-more-so/#comment-42166 The message is the message at The Object Teams Blog Sun, 15 Apr 2012 00:53:15 +0000 http://blog.objectteams.org/?p=120#comment-42166 [...] have been ranting about bad error messages, so in my own work, error messages better be helpful. At least I [...] [...] have been ranting about bad error messages, so in my own work, error messages better be helpful. At least I [...]

]]> By: No Software Can Be Better Than Its Worst Error Message « Dark Views http://blog.objectteams.org/2011/09/builds-are-like-real-software-or-even-more-so/#comment-23458 No Software Can Be Better Than Its Worst Error Message « Dark Views Wed, 07 Sep 2011 13:12:32 +0000 http://blog.objectteams.org/?p=120#comment-23458 [...] Kudos for this simple but oh so true proverb go to Stephan Herrmann. [...] [...] Kudos for this simple but oh so true proverb go to Stephan Herrmann. [...]

]]> By: Alex Kravets http://blog.objectteams.org/2011/09/builds-are-like-real-software-or-even-more-so/#comment-23409 Alex Kravets Tue, 06 Sep 2011 17:27:54 +0000 http://blog.objectteams.org/?p=120#comment-23409 @stephan For us (internal wiki) it is an FAQ where a particular error has explanation of error and possible solutions. Unfortunately this falls under documentation and many public projects lack good documentation, which means these lists a scattered over the web maintained by people who had dealt with these errors before. @stephan For us (internal wiki) it is an FAQ where a particular error has explanation of error and possible solutions.
Unfortunately this falls under documentation and many public projects lack good documentation, which means these lists a scattered over the web maintained by people who had dealt with these errors before.

]]> By: stephan http://blog.objectteams.org/2011/09/builds-are-like-real-software-or-even-more-so/#comment-23406 stephan Tue, 06 Sep 2011 17:03:33 +0000 http://blog.objectteams.org/?p=120#comment-23406 @Alex: Error FAQs indeed seem a viable workaround. Are you speaking of individual FAQs or are tool devs actually maintaining these? I guess the community can help in putting together a good FAQ, but still I'd like to push all tool devs to paying more attention to how the tool communicates with you. If they actively maintain the FAQ hopefully they also get ideas how to improve the error messages in the first place. @Alex: Error FAQs indeed seem a viable workaround. Are you speaking of individual FAQs or are tool devs actually maintaining these?

I guess the community can help in putting together a good FAQ, but still I’d like to push all tool devs to paying more attention to how the tool communicates with you. If they actively maintain the FAQ hopefully they also get ideas how to improve the error messages in the first place.

]]> By: Alex Kravets http://blog.objectteams.org/2011/09/builds-are-like-real-software-or-even-more-so/#comment-23405 Alex Kravets Tue, 06 Sep 2011 16:09:24 +0000 http://blog.objectteams.org/?p=120#comment-23405 Totally agree with you on this one. We switched from PDE Build to Buckminster about a year ago and never been happier. Builds are faster and more manageable, but this came at the cost of deciphering error messages that Buckminster sometimes would throw at you. Of course once you would figure out with the help of others what the error messages mean everything make sense, but at that point went you don't know what in the world that error means, your heart sinks a bit and you feel all alone. The good thing is that these errors are predictable after sometime, so once you've spent time figuring them out it gets easier, and writing "Errors FAQ" makes it easier for others. Totally agree with you on this one. We switched from PDE Build to Buckminster about a year ago and never been happier. Builds are faster and more manageable, but this came at the cost of deciphering error messages that Buckminster sometimes would throw at you. Of course once you would figure out with the help of others what the error messages mean everything make sense, but at that point went you don’t know what in the world that error means, your heart sinks a bit and you feel all alone. The good thing is that these errors are predictable after sometime, so once you’ve spent time figuring them out it gets easier, and writing “Errors FAQ” makes it easier for others.

]]> By: stephan http://blog.objectteams.org/2011/09/builds-are-like-real-software-or-even-more-so/#comment-23391 stephan Tue, 06 Sep 2011 11:21:38 +0000 http://blog.objectteams.org/?p=120#comment-23391 @Kim: I'm glad you like it! :) @Laurent: From what you say, I'd conclude that for a build system excellent error messages are even more important than during normal development, because turn-around times are much higher: It's not very productive if you have to wait an hour for reading: "it didn't work". At that time you want very precise information so you have a good chance that the next build will actually work. Trial and error involving hours of waiting is painful. I can also read your comment as saying: only quick error messages are good error messages, which is a good point, too. @Kim: I’m glad you like it! :)

@Laurent: From what you say, I’d conclude that for a build system excellent error messages are even more important than during normal development, because turn-around times are much higher: It’s not very productive if you have to wait an hour for reading: “it didn’t work”. At that time you want very precise information so you have a good chance that the next build will actually work. Trial and error involving hours of waiting is painful.

I can also read your comment as saying: only quick error messages are good error messages, which is a good point, too.

]]> By: Laurent Asfaux http://blog.objectteams.org/2011/09/builds-are-like-real-software-or-even-more-so/#comment-23385 Laurent Asfaux Tue, 06 Sep 2011 10:04:28 +0000 http://blog.objectteams.org/?p=120#comment-23385 In order to improve the build process of a big RCP application, I tried to switch from a PDE Build based build setup to Tycho. Even if Tycho has a manageable and understandable "MANIFEST first" build process (compared to PDE Build), error messages related to dependency resolving and version checking are raised too lately to be of any help when you are in a hurry. PDE Build needs 20 minutes to compile my RCP application. Tycho needs 15 minutes just to read all the projects and check dependencies (with a single error message instead of one per unresolved dependency), and 40 minutes to complains about a version mismatch when about to compile the first plugin (but Maven allow to resume the build process to the failed project this time). In order to improve the build process of a big RCP application, I tried to switch from a PDE Build based build setup to Tycho.

Even if Tycho has a manageable and understandable “MANIFEST first” build process (compared to PDE Build), error messages related to dependency resolving and version checking are raised too lately to be of any help when you are in a hurry.

PDE Build needs 20 minutes to compile my RCP application.
Tycho needs 15 minutes just to read all the projects and check dependencies (with a single error message instead of one per unresolved dependency), and 40 minutes to complains about a version mismatch when about to compile the first plugin (but Maven allow to resume the build process to the failed project this time).

]]> By: Kim Moir http://blog.objectteams.org/2011/09/builds-are-like-real-software-or-even-more-so/#comment-23339 Kim Moir Mon, 05 Sep 2011 20:10:35 +0000 http://blog.objectteams.org/?p=120#comment-23339 Great post Stephan! I like your point that no software can be better than it's worst error message. A great point! Great post Stephan! I like your point that no software can be better than it’s worst error message. A great point!

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